Heresy Alert!!! Bill Johnson, Jesus Culture and Bethel Church

Bill Johnson, Jesus Culture and Bethel Church

22ThursdayAug 2013

by 

A move of God? Or a lie?

But what I do, I will also continue to do, that I may cut off the opportunity from those who desire an opportunity to be regarded just as we are in the things of which they boast. For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ.  And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.  Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.  2 Cor 11:12-15

BillJohnson

INFO:

    • Bethel Church, Redding, CA, co-”pastored” by wife Beni, and “prophet” and pastor Kris Vallaton
    • Jesus Culture (a ministry of Bethel Church)11
    • Bethel’s School of Supernatural Ministry22, 25

Known for:  Word of Faith (WOF), Name it and claim it, New Apostolic Reformation (NAR, Third wave movement),  Dominionism, Joel’s Army, Latter Rain, Modern day Prophets and apostles, Manifest Sons of God (MSoG), Signs and wonders such as the ‘glory cloud’8 and ‘gold angel dust’9,10, feathers falling, gems appearing, conjuring angel orbs18, fire tunnels, spirit travel, out-of-body experiences18,  ‘healings’ (says those who preach God allows sickness is a different gospel1).  Prophecy, Portal travel (new-age & satanic)18,  extra-biblical revelation, raising the dead7,15, charismatic, praying in tongues, soaking, new wine movement, drunken glory, visualization, laughing movement.  Contemplative meditative practices such as chanting, soaking etc. taught in their school’s SOZO class.  Wife Beni uses tuning forks as a prophetic act, and also believes she is called to the ‘prophetic act of waking up angels’.  She says one of her friends ‘gets pretty wacked’ when the angels are around. 19

Associates (either at his church, or hosting events together):  C. Peter Wagner23 calls Johnson an Apostle25.  Johnson Frequently speaks at the “Voice of the Apostles” conference.  Lakeland Revival6,  Toronto Blessing.  Apostle/Prophet Chuck Pierce, Mike Bickle, Tattooed Healer Todd Bentley(Publicly endorsed 2011)6, Rick Joyner, IHOP, Prophet Bob Jones, Prophetess Patricia King (Xtreme Prophetic); Heidi Baker, John and Carol Arnott, Georgian and Winnie Banov, Randy Clark20, John Crowder (toking the Holy Ghost prophet) Revival Alliance, Reinhard Bonnke, Cindy Jacobs, Lou Engle, Prophet Kris Vallaton.

PUT TODD BENTLEY BACK INTO HIS POSITION (Not sure what he is – along with other profits, and apostlesses, after he abandoned his wife and children and married his affair)
todd-bentley3

Testimony of one delivered from Bethel  ‘cult’.   She points out how there is the manifestion we see oon the videos of the jerking, laughing, convulsing, shaking etc. we see on many of the videos.

Also the obvious for a ‘healer’ and prophet and signs and wonders fellow like Bill Johnson; he and his wife both wear glasses, has had surgeries, son is deaf, etc.  The miracles seem to manifest at convenient times.  http://jesuscultureawakening.blogspot.com/2012/06/god-delivers-another-from-cult-of-jesus.html#.UhPH0JK1GSp

 

Teaches Jesus was born again.

Bill Johnsons asks, “Did you know Jesus was born again?  I asked the first service, and they said, “no”, but I’ll show you it’s in the Bible.  He had to be, He became sin.” T. 3:48-4:55 of this video*1, 17

 

Teaches Jesus didn’t have any supernatural capabilities

Bill Johnson says, “Most all of the experiences of Jesus recorded in Scripture were prophetic examples of the realms in God that are made available to the believer. The Mount of Transfiguration raised the bar significantly on potential human experience…The overwhelming lesson in this story is that Jesus Christ, the Son of man, had the glory of God upon Him5. Jesus’s face shone with God’s glory, similar to Moses’s after he came down from the mountain… “ 4

“Jesus had no ability to heal the sick. He couldn’t cast out devils, and He had no ability to raise the dead. He said of Himself in John 5:19, “the Son can do nothing of Himself.” He had set aside His divinity.  … He put self-imposed restrictions on Himself to show that us we could do it, too.  Jesus so emptied Himself that He was incapable of doing what was required of Him by the Father – without the Father’s help.”26

WHAT???  Jesus had no ability to heal the sick?  This is proper understanding of Scripture?  I suggest they read Isaiah 66:2

Speaking again of Jesus, Johnson wrote“He performed  miracles ,  wonders ,  and   signs, as a man in right relationship to God…not as God. If He performed miracles because He was God, then they would be unattainable for us”.  13

 

Teaches the ‘ascended lifestyle’.

billjohnsonascendedSays that John :13 means Jesus ascended into heaven before His physical ascension and that is an “invitation for every believer”.2 3  He also says about the ascension of Christ, “The resurrection of Christ is actually your resurrection.  His ascension is actually your legal access to heavenly realms”.2

In the non-professing New Age Movement, check into the angels, the Rainbow, the Pyramid, the ascended master, the Christ within us.  I recommend Constance Cumbey’s book, “The Hidden Dangers of the Rainbow: The New Age Movement and the Coming Age of Barbarianism.”

Extra-biblical revelation

Johnson writes, “Those who feel safe because of their intellectual grasp of Scriptures enjoy a false sense of security. None of us has a full grasp of Scripture, but we all have the Holy Spirit. He is our common denominator who will always lead us into truth. But to follow Him, we must be willing to follow off the map—to go beyond what we know”.  14

Sounds about right, UNTIL, he gets to where he is going, we have to follow ‘off the map’…. Isn’t that how people get lost?  

 

BC pastor-prophet Kris Vallotton regarding raising the dead

krisvallotton

Another subject that has drawn a lot of attention recently is dead raising. I need to be honest; I have personally never raised anyone from the dead although I have tried twice. But here again Jesus said, “And as you go, preach, saying, “The kingdom of heaven is at hand. Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out demons….,” (Matthew 10:7-8).14

HIS END-TIMES OPINIONS DO NOT LINE UP WITH GOD’S WORD

  1. I will not embrace an end-time worldview that re-empowers a disempowered devil.
  2. I will not accept an eschatology that takes away my children’s future, and creates mindsets that undermine the mentality of leaving a legacy.
  3. I will not tolerate any theology that sabotages the clear command of Jesus to make disciples of all nations and the Lord’s Prayer that earth would be like heaven.
  4. I will not allow any interpretation of the scriptures that destroys hope for the nations and undermines our command to restore ruined cities
  5. I will not embrace an eschatology that changes the nature of a good God.
  6. I refuse to embrace any mindset that celebrates bad news as a sign of the times and a necessary requirement for the return of Jesus.
  7. I am opposed to any doctrinal position that pushes the promises of God into a time zone that can’t be obtained in my generation and therefore takes away any responsibility I have to believe God for them in my lifetime.
  8. I don’t believe that the last days are a time of judgment, nor do I believe God gave the church the right to call for wrath for sinful cities. There is a day of judgment in which GOD will judge man, not us.

All quotes from this link: http://www.xpmedia.com/article/9763/commentary-on-kris-vallottons-eschatological-core-values

 

Bethel Students soaking up anointing from dead men

IN THE VIDEO FOOTNOTE: Goes to graves… First, soaking up the anointing from the grave of false prophet Smith Wigglesworth.  Says Holy Spirit still exists in the grave.  Punching the devil out of people.  Releasing anointing of a ‘chapel building’, etc. 16

Toking of the Holy Ghost: With Bill Johnson’s tacit endorsement, BSSM students followed John Crowder’s lead (of the “toking the ghost,” “Jehovah-juana” paganism) in “sucking up the anointing” of dead people.  As Fawcett notes, Johnson will begin his own holy relic museum to restore the lost anointing of “God’s generals” to the present church.  Just as Roman Catholics believe that the belongings of late saints can earn gain someone divine assistance and even miracles, Bethel seems intent on calling Christians to the mysticism of object worship. 35

Tattoo  Readings In addition to “normal” prophetic words, those who attended Bethel’s “Power and Love Conference” in February received readings based on their tattoos and piercings.  Doug Addison can interpret the hidden messages on your body and even train you to do the same.  You don’t even have to fly to where he is; for the reasonable fee of $150, he can tickle your ears over the phone for thirty minutes. 35

STUDENTS FORGIVE SINS: Girl at Bethel says God tells her to forgive an unconscious dying man’s sins, and said he’ll be forgiven. She released God’s power over him and told him he would enter God’s kingdom…33

 

Kenosis Doctrine

Footnote 24 – see more info on footnote.

 billJohnsonKenosis

 

MORE ABERRANT TEACHINGS AND PRACTICES

Bill Johnson believes and teaches;

Healing in the Atonement – He says, Doctrine teaches, through Christ’s death, all believers are given physical healing.

      1. God never causes sickness.
      2. God always chooses to heal.
      3. Paul’s thorn in the flesh was definitely not a physical ailment.
      4. If you do not believe in healing on demand, you arepreaching another gospel (Gal 1:6-9)

“I refuse to create a theology that allows for sickness.” Bill Johnson21

Interesting, since the Bible’s truth speaks and allows for sickness whether Mr. Johnson does or not, the TRUTH still stands.

On the “Christ Anointing”31 – Speaks for itself

BillJohnson-theAnointed

 

Elijah Generation & Anointing

Johnson believes that there will be a great end-time revival that will be initiated by an “Elijah generation”(a concept from the heretical Latter Rain movement) that shall transcend all other generations of Christians in regard to their ability to do great works of power. 27

Johnson claims the following about himself and associates: “We will carry the Elijah anointing in preparing for the return of the Lord in the same way that John the Baptist carried the Elijah anointing and prepared the people for the coming of the Lord” (Johnson: 184). 28 (Where do find that in Scripture?)

 

Glory Cloud, Feathers, Gold flakes

  • Bill Johnson speaks in his own voice on Bethel TV regarding the angel dust etc.  First, at about 1:35 on the clip, you can hear about the “glory cloud hovering over his platform at church with gold, smoke, dust, teeny, weeny little flakes”…
  • At about 4:30, you can hear Bill Johnson talk about the feathers falling in his service, their homes, and restaurants, explains it with God “covering us with His feathers”.
  • At about 6:00 you can hear how on a plane, gold flakes started to fall out of the air and people got saved (without hearing the gospel-Rom 10:14-17).

http://www.worldviewweekend.com/tube/video/exposing-false-teaching-bill-johnson-bethel-church-redding-ca

 

KINGDOM NOW THEOLOGY

Johnson interprets the Lord’s Prayer, which is primarily a prayer for the return on Christ, in terms of his “kingdom now” theology: “This is the primary purpose for all prayer—if it exists in heaven, it is to be loosed on earth”. This means that if we do not have problem free lives, we are lacking faith, praying wrongly, or failing to understand our role as having dominion. Johnson explains: “Such an invasion causes the circumstances here to line up with heaven”. 30

 

 

House of Generals – Greatest Library of Revivalist Materials

In this video on Bethel, Johnson mentions these ‘great revivalists’ that he says the Lord told him to honor with this library, “because they have walked faithfully before the Lord in the past”.  Johnson continued, “He will give us access to their anointings…” (Their students hang out at graves to soak in the anointing.  Necromancy.)

bjaimeeBJ-kuhlbjsmith

Some names he mentions: YIKES!

Billy Graham, Aimee Semple McPherson, Smith Wigglesworth, William Branham, Kathryn Kuhlman, John G. Lake, John Wimber, William J. Seymour, Maria Woodworth Etter, Lorenzo Dow, Alexander Dowie, Jack Coe, Evan Roberts.32

 

BAND Jesus Culture 

Kim Walker testifies to seeing Jesus in person (like a stretch Armstrong doll she said).  She also sees God the Father in person, who tears a piece of His heart right out of His chest.34

I don’t know WHAT she saw, but it was NOT God the Father, nor Jesus.

 

Bill Johnson:“Owls represent the prophetic. They see in the night.”36

OTHER BILL JOHNSON QUOTES: http://www.zedekiahlist.com/cgi-bin/quotes.pl?&id=57408920

Footnotes: (Citations, not recommendations)

1  http://youtu.be/UzAwFYKe3h0   (*Now explains it as he was born again through the resurrection.)

http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2013/07/13/bill-johnson-claims-you-can-think-and-live-from-the-right-hand-of-god/

http://www.zedekiahlist.com/cgi-bin/quotes.pl?&id=57408920&pid=97543920

4  (Face to Face with God 2007, Charisma House, Lake Mary, FL; p 200.)

5  http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2012/06/25/bill-johnsons-christology-a-new-age-christ-part-iv-conclusion/

6  (Says Lakeland was an anointing by God, we will be ‘blessed and encouraged by) http://apprising.org/2013/01/12/sound-advice-for-bethel-church-pastor-bill-johnson/

7  http://apprising.org/2013/01/03/jesus-culture-of-bethel-church-and-practicing-raising-the-dead/

8  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvJMPccZR2Y

9  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvJMPccZR2Y (not a fan of wretched)

10 http://youtu.be/Un4zUupqm8c

11  Screenshot of JC’s FB statement – http://apprising.org/2013/01/02/louie-giglio-passion-2013-and-jesus-culture/

12 http://www.thebereancall.org/content/august-2012-q-and-a-1

13 (Johnson,  “When Heaven Invades Earth”, p. 29).

14  (Johnson,  “When Heaven Invades Earth”,  p. 76)

15 http://apprising.org/2013/01/03/jesus-culture-of-bethel-church-and-practicing-raising-the-dead/

16 http://youtu.be/LrHPTs8cLls

17 http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2010/09/17/bill-johnsons-born-again-jesus-part-i/

18 Michael Boehm (Youth Apologetic’s training) –http://youthapologeticstraining.com/bill-johnson-exposed-08-portals-spirit-travel-sozo-and-angel-orbs/

19 http://www.johnthebaptisttv.com/warning-bill-johnson-and-bethel-church/

20 Guest speakers at their school frequently.

21 http://youthapologeticstraining.com/bill-johnson-and-healing-in-the-atonement/

22 Claims to be unique because they teach with ‘apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, & teachers….not by professors or theologions’

23 C. Peter Wagner, International Coalition of Apostles included Bill Johnson as one of the apostles who would give Todd Bentley his ‘ministry’ back.

24   Johnson says, “He performed miracles, wonders, and signs, as a man in right relationship to God . . . . not as God. If He performed miracles because He was God, then they would be unattainable for us” (Johnson: 29; emphasis and ellipses in original).  Johnson’s theology requires that Christians do greater miracles than Jesus. If Jesus’ divinity had any influence on His mighty works, then we might think we could not do the same (and rightly so). So Johnson embraces what is often called thekenosis heresy—that Jesus laid aside His divine nature. He writes elsewhere: “He laid his divinity aside as He sought to fulfill the assignment given to Him by the Father . . .” (Johnson: 79).

25 DVD curriculum from the Bethel School (BSSM) offers the ‘apostolic and prophetic voice of Bill Johnson.

26 (Page 50; “The Supernatural Power of a Transformed Mind”).

27  Bill Johnson, When Heaven Invades Earth – A Practical Guide to a Life of Miracles, (Shippensburg, PA: Destiny Image, 2003) 150

28  Bob Dewaay from CIC Ministries. http://www.echozoe.com/archives/2519

29  (“When Heaven Invades Earth” page 141)

30 (“When Heaven Invades Earth” page 59)  A review of the book:http://apprising.org/2013/01/06/an-invasion-of-error-review-of-when-heaven-invades-earth-by-bill-johnson/

31 http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2013/06/09/assessing-bill-johnsons-eternally-god-declarations-amidst-his-other-christological-statements-2/

32 http://mandate.ibethel.org/#takeAction

33 http://youtu.be/H4VpH1FKkSQ

34 http://youtu.be/kkFQe_vcqvg

35 http://gospelliving.blogspot.com/2013/04/why-jesus-culture-bethel-church-and_15.html

36 http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/johnsonfowllanguage.html

 

 
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167 Responses to Heresy Alert!!! Bill Johnson, Jesus Culture and Bethel Church

  1. Garry Umphress says:

    Even the elect will be deceived. who knows what Daniel 12:4 says? He is told to seal the book, which he does. Later in Revelation 10 there is an introduction of a little book…… say what? how about the one that already exists? Than at the last versus in Rev 10 a mandate is spoken to go again to the peoples, kings and nations. Say what…. you mean that all of the going to the nations work thus far has been in vain? The short answer is yes. why is this? Because Daniel sealed the book for a later time. Even the elect will be deceived” Far better for the followers to move away as there is nothing profitable remaining in this comment section to see

  2. susan Stanley says:

    I feel safe in relying on the Holy Spirit as my guide-to interpret scriptures, to show me the way. God says if I ask Him for bread he won’t give me a scorpion. What are you following if not the Holy Spirit? Does that make you feel safe. Scripture says there’s enmity between God and the carnal mind. Being of the spiritual mind takes total surrender to our holy God. I sincerely hope that you are of a spiritual mind so that you are not one of the deceived. Love you sincerely in Christ. Experience the freedom in Christ. You will love the difference. Truth is freeing.

    • Douglas Abbott says:

      But everything must be supported by Scripture.

    • Rachel says:

      Scripture has to be taken in context. the New Apostolic Reformation takes scriptures grossly out of context. Anyone can twist a scripture to make it what they want. It is written very plain text so anyone can understand, only the deceived think there is ‘Hidden knowledge” or methods of power therein.

  3. felipe fuentes says:

    good stuff. I also recommend reading The New Apostolic Reformation by Doug Geivett.

  4. Pingback: Heresy Alert!!! Bill Johnson, Jesus Culture and Bethel Church – discipleship4everlastinglife

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  6. I appreciate this article. I hadn’t heard of these folks.

    And anybody that Accusers of the Saints like yourselves hate this bad has got to be awesome. I’ll look these guys up.

    Thanks so much.

    • Patrick says:

      Apparently you have not read the four Gospels where Jesus displays His displeasure with the Jewish leaders of His day. What saddens me most is how little the Christians understand the Word of God, yet they are so quick to jump on board with any new thing that comes as long. I have interact with church goers of nearly fourty years, and sad to say, very few, not all, know little about what they believe.

      • Bob Boxx says:

        OK. Fair enough: a small number of believers know what they believe.
        OK. Fair enough: Some things that believers get excited about are messed up.
        OK. Fair enough: These guys believe differently than you.
        I’m serious, though about this: this website serves as an accuser of the brethren. Any group that accusers of the brethren attacks this badly is worth knowing about. Not all of them will be wonderful, but many are.
        I’m sure that when Jesus returns for his Bride, that he’ll thank you for judging her by comparing her to yourself: if she believes like you, you let her pass; if she believes differently, you attack her (er, “correct” her) in this most biblical way.
        Do you have a phone number for these guys?

      • Bob Boxx says:

        Oh. I’ve been interacting with church goers for a fair bit more than half a century. I’ve read the gospels.
        It seems to me that our Lord’s harshest words were for the ones who “bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.” That doesn’t sound like he’s going after the people they’re accusing here. That sounds like he might have a word to say to the folks behind this website.
        Just observing.

    • Rachel says:

      Paul and Christ had many words for people who were heretics. Please read the bible.

  7. pulem says:

    Hey Sheperdguardian I hope you are well in health and in spirit. I would like start by saying I am intrigued by the harshness of the comments I see here from variousnpeople. As you say elsewhere, a heretic is a heretic. It saddens me still to see such brazen labelling without caution.
    By no means am I proposing that we not judge the house of God but it saddens me to see this happening so regularly and across the globe on the net and people who are shallow in their knowledge of the bible, history and parsing permutations of the pedulum called convictions.

    But the more important reason for my commentry is that I think most of the people who are reading your post for the first time and who are thankfull have shallow knowledge of church history, escstology, heumanutics etc and therefore easily agree with all of your points. I commend you for making an effort in reading widely and maybe or maybe not intensley on church matters and I hope that includes indepth bible research as well, but your dismissing a whole lot of church leaders/preachers/pastors in the last 100 years of the life of the church including those of the 1800 is telling of your state of belief and dogma. This type of self declared guardianship of whats out there regardless of who it is, always seems to have one common thread, a grandeous dismissal of a large chunk of many men and women of the last 100 odd years. It says a lot about the one doing the assessment and analysis of what constitutes herecy and who is a fraud and a fake.

    I am always cautious about what I allow to consume my time in the things of God in the hands of men

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  11. Ronnie McDaniel says:

    I never cease to marvel at how the marvelous Clydesdale size ministries blessing millions of people, drawing them closer to God and blessing them beyond measure are continually being hassled by useless Chihuahuas yapping at their heels. Jesus had his Pharisees and we have ours.

  12. Will Austin says:

    This is basically a test run to see if this site has a policy of holding comments in “moderation” before they’re posted. Usually sites that do this want time to analyze passages given to see if they can correctly address comments based on scripture. If they can’t, the comments are held in “moderation” forever. I apologize in advance if this site doesn’t do that. But if this site does follow that pattern, well I guess I’ll know that soon enough.

  13. Will Austin says:

    And there it is. Sites who’ve implemented this policy are afraid that they can’t correctly address views based on scripture. They’re afraid of looking foolish when they can’t produce scripture supporting their viewpoint, or can’t refute the scriptures given that demonstrate their ignorance of scriptures. In other words, their pride over rides their commitment to discussing truth based on the Word of God.. And now either my comments will be held indefinitely in “moderation”, or will be placed in “trash” so that no one else even knows that they ever existed. Thankfully God will know.
    And have a blessed life, whoever you are, that is reading this.

  14. Pingback: What Your Church Needs to Know About the NAR | Reasoned Cases for Christ

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  16. June says:

    “They teach mysticism, tongues, signs and wonders and grave-sucking.”
    Mysticism and grave-sucking I am unfamiliar with. But by inclusion, are you suggesting tongues and signs & wonders are not of God?

    • Hi June,
      It is my understanding “tongues” was the speaking in an actual language unfamiliar to the speaker in the book of Acts. It was never to be thought of as a cacophonous gobbledygook as is practiced at Bethel Church.

      It is my understanding “Signs and Wonders” were for Prophets and Apostles in the Biblical age (that ended when John died) for the purpose of validating their identity and the Truths they spoke. There are no prophets or apostles at Bethel Church in spite of the fact they will tell you otherwise.

      Thank you for your comment and question.
      S/G

  17. Mark Johnson says:

    Bethel are not a church in any-sense of the word! A country club or cult is more fitting! Once again stupid mindless unlearned pathic sheep’s ! They need fall into the ditch and die!

  18. Mrs Finn says:

    The word “vallaton” means “powerless/ without power” in finnish language. It can also be used of a person (usually a child) who is behaving carelessly or in a spontanious manner. Just to let you know. Greetings from Finland!

  19. Clay says:

    One of the marks of true man of God is their humbleness. Another is living a godly life and that means persecution. Another is they walk in power because they are empowered in the secret place, their time alone with God when mo one sees. I will not align myself with the Accuser of the brethern Be carwful to not align with the Accuser. Dangerous place to live. Pray earnestly with all your heart for Bill Johnson. Love on him thru prayer. Its a command. It also protects you from aligning with the Accuser of the brethern, whether knowlngly or unknowlingly. Examine your own heart, thought life, actions, words that come out of your mouth, how fruitful you are, how you measure on how much fruit of the Holy Spirit you walk in, how you respond when offended, complaints, grumbing vs thanksgiving and praise, how much joy do you walk in….in other words, pray for your borthees and sisters in Christ, especially if you think they are in error, you decide to becone Love and pray for breakthru for their lives. It will be like a wall of protection. How good and pleasant it is for brethern to dwell together in unity. How much time do you spend praying every day? Are you changed after every encounter with God? I asked God every time I meet Him in the secret place thatI am changed and impacted by the end. Always be humle to be ready to receive from God. May you experience the fullness of joy in the Holy Spirit. God bless you.

  20. I love Jesus says:

    The names mentioned like Smith Wigglesworth, John G Lake, etc. Some I dont know or never heard of but these men/women were vessels that I believe God used to heal people. I agree what Bethel is doing is not Biblical. I also believe speaking I’ll of people of God, who Doctors would even tell their dying patients to go see, when they couldn’t do anything else for them. I do believe some people are called to lay hands on people and God uses them. Just as some people are called to be teachers, pastors, intercessors, etc.

    I sort of felt like in this article you are in a way, saying that God doesn’t use people to heal. We saw the holy spirit use the disciples all in the NT and they didnt perform the miracles but God did perform those miracles through those people. We will probably see this in the future and these people who know how to pray for us in the near future, you may want to get to know. Before long we may not be able to go to a Dr. Due to being in the same situation as the early church.

    Pray about it. I am not judging, saying you are wrong about everything, etc. A lot of good points were made and I am glad the warnings are getting out. The elect are being deceived. I am only stating we need to be careful when speaking of real Godly men who may have been called to do these amazing things and they were able to do them bot by themselves but by the power of the holy spirit.

    • I love Jesus says:

      Meant to say speaking Ill of people of God is wrong. Where I mentioned Drs did sending their patients to go see Kathryn Kuhlman for example. I really believe that woman had an amazing relationship with God and she knew how to ‘harness’ (maybe not best word) the holy spirit. There were thousands of testimonies or people being healed at her meetings. She never took credit for those healings and she always gave glory to God and was like a child and so amazed at what God was doing for people. You can know the fakes by their fruits. I believe her fruit. Was she perfect no, she was divorced, a woman, etc. Maybe that is why she had so many critics during her time but it was in my opinion ignorance at that time.

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